能进人的喷水池，常规设计时 AC380V 水泵电机离水池应该多远才能保证电气安全？

尺短寸长

方法只有一个，任何情况下禁止人进入喷水池。
能进人的喷水池应该是无法按照游泳池设计的，钢筋网不一样 ...
yu990921 发表于 2013-8-12 20:21

                               
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方法只有一个，任何情况下禁止人进入喷水池。{:sweat:}

2012.10《建筑电气》
喷水池电击事故起因简析（王厚余）
……
4 结语

喷水池水下不可避免地需使用 220 V 甚至380 V 的电气设备， 但我国生产的水下电气设备难以满足 IPX8 防水要求， 使水下出现电压梯度。我国一般老百姓缺乏电气安全知识， 常误入喷水池内， 导致事故的发生， 分析事故原因时往往首先检查电气设计中的问题。虽然许多问题出在产品质量、施工安装和维护管理上， 但由于设计文件内未交待清楚， 设计人员常难辞其咎。笔者认为喷水池电气设计必须符合新版 IEC 60364 - 7 - 702： 2010 ［2］ 的要求， 在设计文件内必须明确以下重点要求， 以确保电气安全， 避免一旦发生事故， 电气设计人员蒙受不白之冤：
a. 水下电气设备必须满足 IPX8 防水要求。
b. 水下电源回路不得有接头， 如有接头必须采取保证接头不进水的措施。
c. 喷水池边树立警示牌， 告诫喷水池通电时人体不得进入池内。
d. 确保水下电源回路上的 RCD 的有效动作。
e. 宜定期测试水下电气装置的绝缘水平。

seekandkill

对啊，前段时间刚出了喷水池电死人的事故，说是漏电，看报道说是人工手动拉的闸。 漏电的话漏保怎么不跳呢？是因为漏电电流还没达到漏保的的跳闸电流？？？

yangyang7201

漏电的话漏保怎么不跳呢？是因为漏电电流还没达到漏保的的跳闸电流？？？
seekandkill 发表于 2013-8-13 08:58

                               
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46楼尺总提到的王老的论文有详细的分析。

大鼻山

老诚版主的计算能力，在这个问题上必能大显神通 ——
一旦电机漏电……水下形成电场……离“喷泉电机”多远，水下出现的电压梯度能确保不致死人？
尺短寸长 发表于 2013-8-9 15:29

                               
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如果按照电压梯度的思路，则基本可认为走进了死胡同；若按照减少了电流强度的思路，则还有点探讨空间。

大鼻山

我认为加强电器绝缘及其日常检测、设置并联小电流RCD（如5毫安）、禁人入池等，可能才是根本解决之道（我认为等电位联结此时不算是首当其冲的防范措施）。或者说，是喷水池，干脆就禁止人类进入。

大鼻山

此外，关于SELV供电之类说法，我觉得可能也陷于了误区。似乎更应该从漏电电流而不是从供电电压来考虑人身安全问题。

尺短寸长

702.55.101.3 Feed pumps, or other special electrical equipment especially intended for use in swimming pools located in a room or location adjacent to the swimming pool and accessible via a hatch (or door) located on the deck surrounding the swimming pool, shall be protected by one of the following protective measures:

a）SELV not exceeding 12 V a.c. or 30 V d.c. with the source being installed outside zones 0 and 1. Where the source of supply is installed in zone 2, 702.53 applies (see702.410.3.101.1);

b）electrical separation according to Clause 413 with simultaneous fulfilment of the following conditions:

– where the pump or other equipment is connected to the swimming pool basin, the connection shall only be made by non-conductive water piping;

– it shall only be possible to open the hatch or the door by means of a key or tool;

– all equipment installed in the room or location shall have a degree of protection of at least IPX5 or such protection shall be provided by an enclosure.

c）automatic disconnection of the power supply with simultaneous fulfilment of the following conditions:

– where the pump or other equipment is connected to the swimming pool basin, the connection shall be made by either electrically insulated water piping, or metal water piping connected to the pool basin's equipotential bonding:

– it shall only be possible to open the hatch or the door by means of a key or tool;

– all equipment installed in the room or location shall have a degree of protection of at least IPX5 or such protection shall be provided by an enclosure;

– additional equipotential bonding shall be installed in accordance with 702.415.2;

– the equipment shall be protected by a residual current protective device with a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA.

NOTE The room where the equipment is located is considered to be outside zones 1 and 2.

尺短寸长

702.55.104 Special requirements for the installation of low voltage electrical equipment in zone 1 of swimming pools
702.55.104.1 Fixed equipment (e.g. filtration systems, jet stream pumps), especially intended for use in swimming pools and supplied at low voltage, is allowed in zone 1 provided all the following requirements are met:
a）the equipment shall be located inside an enclosure equivalent to supplementary insulation and providing protection against mechanical impact AG2;
b）the requirements of 702.55.101.3 apply;
c） the opening of the hatch specified in 702.55.101.3 shall result in the disconnection of all live conductors of the equipment located in the enclosure. The supply cable and the main disconnecting means shall be installed in a way which provides protection of class II or equivalent insulation.
702.55.104.2 For swimming pools where there is no zone 2, lighting equipment supplied by circuits other than SELV not exceeding 12 V a.c. or 30 V d.c. (see 702.410.3.101.1) may be installed in zone 1 on a wall or on the ceiling provided that both the following requirements are fulfilled:
– the circuit is protected by automatic disconnection of supply and additional protection by using a residual current protective device with a rated operating current not exceeding 30 mA, and
– the height of the lower part of the lighting equipment is at least 2 m from the lower limit of zone 1.

大鼻山

老兄安全抵达上海啦？

大鼻山

说是今天上海黄色暴雨预警啊！
我看到了你的红色字体，尚在琢磨中……

尺短寸长

回复 54# 大鼻山

凌晨2点才到家。

尺短寸长

昨晚上海暴雨，深圳和上海两个机场流控。。。。。。累坏了。

大鼻山

老兄这次来深，我本想周五至少呆满一天并和老兄畅叙技术话题的！不想协会有急事，搞得我半途而废，也未予单独招待，特此致歉~幸而谋见老兄真面，也算一得——老兄之年轻、之康健、之神采，有点出乎我的意料，哈哈！

大鼻山

而且比网上照片帅气不少，也算超越我的预料：）

尺短寸长

大鼻山老弟说笑说笑，大家可别听他乱说。
不年轻啦。
年过半百放从前，在上海已够格被人家称作“爷叔”。